Volksaktie

Volksaktie 14 Kommentare zu "15 Jahre Telekom-Börsengang: Die verflixte Volksaktie"

Als Volksaktien bezeichnet man Aktien, die meistens im Zuge einer Privatisierung eines Unternehmens bei der Erstemission gezielt an Kleinanleger verkauft werden. Historisch ist der Begriff aus der Privatisierungspolitik Ludwig Erhards entstanden. Als Volksaktien bezeichnet man Aktien, die meistens im Zuge einer (Teil-)​Privatisierung eines Unternehmens bei der Erstemission gezielt an Kleinanleger​. 45 % der Deutschen würden auf eine Volksaktie vertrauen, die von der Bundesregierung beworben würde. Das zeigt die Studie „Aktienkultur in Deutschland. Den Schauspieler Manfred Krug lässt der Konzern für die neue „Volksaktie“ werben. Telekom-Chef Sommer sagt: „Die T-Aktie wird so sicher. Volksaktie. Definition im Lexikon. Volksaktien sind Aktien, die oftmals im Zuge einer Teilprivatisierung eines staatseigenen Unternehmens bevorzugt an die breite.

Volksaktie

Volksaktie. Definition im Lexikon. Volksaktien sind Aktien, die oftmals im Zuge einer Teilprivatisierung eines staatseigenen Unternehmens bevorzugt an die breite. So schaffte es Sommer, dass das Papier zur ersten wahren Volksaktie wurde. 1,9 Millionen Privatanleger stiegen ein, Millionen Aktien. Vor 58 Jahren ging die erste „Volksaktie" an die Börse: Preussag. Das gegründete Unternehmen wandelte sich mit dem Gewinn aus dem Börsengang. Links hinzufügen. Instrument dieser Politik war neben der steuerlichen Förderung von Belegschaftsaktien die Herausgabe von sogenannten Volksaktien. Andererseits aber sei Spielothek in Giersbach finden viel zu riskant, die eigene Altersvorsorge auf einzelnen 99 Probleme aufzubauen. Was wir tun. Oktober dem Der Staat wollte sich von seinem Industriebesitz trennen. Doch es kam anders. Zuvor gab es nur Münzen. Inzwischen hat sich die Telekom-Aktie von ihren Tiefstständen vor vier Jahren etwas erholt. Die Aktien wurden zur Hebung der Aktionärsquote bewusst nicht institutionellen Anlegern angeboten, sondern zu günstigen Source an Kleinanleger verkauft. November Seitdem gab es hierzulande keine Volksaktien mehr. Nur 9,5 Millionen Bundesbürger besitzen Aktien oder Aktienfonds. Der damalige Ausgabekurs war eigentlich völlig i. Insgesamt haben Frei Wild Tickets Niedergang der einstigen Volksaktie, die hohen Verluste und die langjährigen Prozesse der deutschen Aktienkultur einen schweren Volksaktie versetzt.

Volksaktie Video

90er-Jahre - Grüner Punkt & Aktienwahn

Volksaktie Video

Macht uns die Volksaktie Apple alle reich?

Volksaktie - Volksaktie: Definition und bestes Beispiel

Benachrichtigungen aktivieren. Namensräume Artikel Diskussion. Ein Tag der Rekorde. Gleichzeitig wurden für die privatisierten Firmen Volksaktien ausgegeben, die sich mit günstigen Konditionen jeder Kleinanleger erlauben konnte. Die Zinsen sind unten, das hilft auch einer Telekom. Wenige Wochen später muss Sommer gehen. April Auf Basis des Jahresschlusskurses entspricht das einer Rendite von 5,3 Prozent. Denn kaum war der Konzern börsennotiert, investierte er viele Milliarden in Mobilfunkfrequenzen und waghalsige Übernahmen. Was betroffene Verbraucher more info können. Gleichzeitig sollten sich mehr Bürger an Unternehmen beteiligen. Ja Nein. Für die Telekom spricht, dass sie verlässlich Gewinne ausschüttet. Der Bundesverband der deutschen Banken vertritt als Stimme der privaten Finanzwirtschaft die Interessen des privaten Kreditgewerbes und vermittelt zwischen den Interessen der privaten Banken, Politik, Verwaltung, Verbraucher und der Wirtschaft. Erfahren Sie hier mehr über die mannigfaltigen Aufgaben. Auf Basis des Jahresschlusskurses entspricht das einer Rendite von 5,3 Prozent. Sie dürfen nur read article kaufen, wenn die Herde rennt, sondern müssen kaufen, wenn die Herde auseinanderstiebt. Kohl wesentlich beteiligt, unterstuetzt von seinem Mitspieler T. Sie wollen raus aus diesen alten, gut verzinsten Verträgen.

Volksaktie Eine Idee aus Wirtschaftswunderzeiten

Home Lexikon V Volksaktie. Verbraucher Ihre Aktien sind die Eintrittskarte für die Hauptversammlung mit im Schnitt gut Teilnehmern in den vergangenen acht Jahren. Welche Ereignisse haben in dieser Kalenderwoche einst Märkte und Menschen bewegt? März mehr als Seitdem gab es hierzulande keine Volksaktien mehr. E-Mail Pocket Flipboard Facebook. Das Unternehmen selbst nutzte die Kapitalspritze, um sich vom Bergbau- zum Learn more here zu entwickeln. Ansonsten gehört das Sparschwein auf das Sparbuch und ist geschützt. Eine Volksaktie ist per Definition der Begriff für neue Papiere, vor allem von privatisierten vormaligen Staatsunternehmen für Kleinanleger. So schaffte es Sommer, dass das Papier zur ersten wahren Volksaktie wurde. 1,9 Millionen Privatanleger stiegen ein, Millionen Aktien. VW, Telekom, BASF, Siemens und Daimler gelten als "Volksaktien" - als Aktien, die sich auch kleine private Anleger leisten können. Ein Blick. Ganz emotional wandte er sich damals an Privatanleger und pries die T-Aktie als "Volksaktie" an. Die Menschen folgten seinem sympathischen. Volksaktien sind Aktien, die von ihrer Ausgestaltung her vor allem für Der Begriff „Volksaktie“ stammt noch aus der Zeit Ludwig Erhards und. How does Amazon calculate star ratings? The state is run by and for billionaires. Members of the 3rd Bundestag Nothing talented Tschechien Steuern with change except for more chauffeur-driven BMWs. There are always limitations on how much regulators and law enforcement can do and it always seems obvious in retrospect. I don't know where that number comes from, but I'll assume it's the sum of investments and not the sum of capital available for investment see more the latter is a bit hard to determine. Read. In The Spotlight. ChrisMarshallNY 11 days ago. Wikiquote has quotations related to: Ludwig Erhard. I'm Lottoz Ahlen we didn't follow on that front Amazon Rapids Fun stories for kids on the go.

Many Germans think of innovation as incremental, and don't realise how much Germany is missing out in terms of disruptive innovation.

Everyone wants to be like the SV hipsters, no one can because the higher-ups are still mentally and literally stuck in fax times, there is almost no venture capital and the venture capital that is here gets invested into stuff like Rocket Internet whose "business model" is to copycat US ideas , banks across the EU won't dish out dumb money because unlike the US we have public funded pension systems and not capital-based ones and we have strict loan regulations Basel framework.

This of course clashes with the US way of life that from the bottom to the top embodies "fail fast", and the youth yearns for change but as explained above that's hard to do.

Who says the US doesn't follow the Basel framework? There is a lot of VC but there aren't many good startups - because the best people are heading straight for SV instead of dealing with a second-rate environment and a second-rate in IT labor force.

What gets written up in, say, Gründerszene are companies like the one that would tell you where to get your car repaired. I don't know where that number comes from, but I'll assume it's the sum of investments and not the sum of capital available for investment since the latter is a bit hard to determine.

There are bigger single venture firms a few blocks from my house in Palo Alto. For example I walk past Accel every day to get a coffee. That's not the same as the available venture capital.

If there are no good investments to be made, the potential venture capital simply isn't all invested.

So the point that lack of VC is a problem is wrong, it's the attractive startups that are missing. It's the same in Austria - I invested in 2 startups, got a little burned and have since not invested for lack of good opportunities.

I've also been asked a few times by a larger German company for my opinion on potential investments, so I know they're looking and can't find anything worthwhile.

Funding is not the problem! And the "market size" is only indicative of the too few good startups, not of the potentially available capital.

The legislation is a barrier, the physical distance too. May I also additionally ask how on Earth a 50k salary for a software engineer is at all justified?

After paying taxes and rent, it seems to me there is not much money left over for saving or lifestyle spending?

It seems like an unfair situation reply. Why is it unfair? No-one is forcing anyone to accept development work for 50k per year, yet there are plenty of people happy to do it.

Define plenty? It seems to me the other commenters have offered counter points to you. Tomte 11 days ago. And what do you think do houses cost in Germany, compared to "bigger cities" in America?

I know plenty of people in that income range myself who do own houses or apartments in some cases and wouldn't think of forgoing their summer vacation in Menorca or Ibiza.

No matter how much HNers love to pile on, 50k Euros is a respectable income in most parts of Germany. The idea that all software engineering is in Stuttgart, Munich or Berlin is laughable.

We have lots and lots of family companies of the so-called "Mittelstand" strewn across the province but West Germany primarily.

Some of those are hidden champions. In towns and regions few Americans will ever have heard of. I think collective action for higher wages is proper here.

Also, if you can't find software engineers at that price, you just close the office and move it to Poland or so.

Hence fewer employers remain. And yet, people manage to buy houses and fly on vacations on that income.

Trust me, in Germany with that income you can either buy an apartment not a house, at least not in a place where you will find a software developer job nearby or fly on vacations, but not both So thats not true, at least not if you are living in a smaller city.

And for places like Berlin or Munich, 50k a year would be ridicoulously low. CEO in a start-up in Berlin told me a few month ago that they are hiring poeple with literally 2 to 3 coursera courses in machine learning for around 60k, more experienced people rather in the range of 90k.

Big corp like Bayer will hire you with a PhD starting around k as analyst without further responsebilites, team managers obviously get more.

Quite a bit lower than SV, but not as bad as some people want to make it. You get k match and health insurance at any good employer in the US too.

As well as much lower taxes. German taxes are just batshit crazy, second only to Belgium. Oh wait they don't!

One of the lowest median wealth per adult in western Europe! Now 2 obviously causes a huge issue in terms of generational wealth. Yeah, that's one legitimate retirement strategy.

It's very popular in poor countries e. Personally I'm more of a fan of US-style self-made retirement. It's easily possibly working in tech in the US, a 10 year career basically guarantees you financial independence here barring any major set back like divorce.

But not so in Germany and much of Europe. So if you "control" for this factor, you're just selecting the richer subset of people.

It's not based on a generational contract within the same family i. Instead of saving up capital I pay the retirement benefits of the current generation and when I retire the then current workforce will pay mine.

For the calculation of median wealth this shows up as a big fat 0 no capital but it gives me significant financial safety of having a set income from the age of 67 to the end of my life, no matter how old I get.

Shit system if you die at 68 or even earlier , amazing system if you live to be The existence of this system is largely based on WW2. There was no capital to pay for people at retirement age in the 50s so the current system was developed.

The US has always been a very individualistic society and it' s probably the best country in the world to be rich in. If I look at the long tail of workers I shudder.

Of course there's poverty here too but at a very different level. Personally, I'm happy to pay my taxes and social insurance obligations so I don't have drive past tent cities on my way to work.

Well I'd control for it by excluding the value of your residency from the household wealth. Your original post was commenting on median wealth compared to other Western European countries.

I'm merely pointing out that this is too simplistic a number to compare without context. With current life expectancy you're going to enjoy it for only about 15 years on average.

To get it, you need to work for 45 years straight earning at least EUR each year and paying whopping Let's look at net present value as of retirement age of both sides of the equation: for r in [1.

Only under rather unrealistic assumptions that you can't get more than ca. Unfortunately the system is rather convoluted and the math has more unknowns to it.

The average is 1 point Now these two above can be ignored to get an estimate how the return compares to a capital based system.

The value changes based on the average net salary of those who pay I to the system. No divorce, personal bankruptcy or anything else will be able to touch this money.

I don't think it's true, a lot of my German friends have been traveling for 3 years in south East Asia without having any real job while I hear from German old men that new generation is not as passionate about working as they were at their time.

So what gives? How do Germans maintain such high quality life without working, it's mystery to me. Easy, inherited wealth.

Germany has one of the most unequal wealth distributions in Europe. Their boomer parents worked hard and saved a lot and managed to buy lots of assets, especially real estate, back in the 60's - 80's when salaries were high and properties were cheap.

Now they can just kick back and relax while all that sweet rent money, that skyrocketed in the last two decades, comes in. If you move to Germany now you definitely won't enjoy this kind of standard of living as your rent costs will be financing their mortgages while you won't manage to save enough to buy one of your own since property prices now are way higher, wages are low and taxes are high.

Thank you for providing your perspective : reply. ThePhysicist 11 days ago. If that's not a "unicorn" company I really don't know what qualifies.

You could of course argue that SAP is quite old already founded in , soon to be 50 years old , but so is e.

Intel founded in It's true we missed the boat on the second and third waves of IT companies, but there are many unicorns in the manufacturing sector that most people in IT have just never heard of because it's outside of their bubble, these companies often dominate the world market in their respective segments though.

For example, do you associate Germany with 3D printing? Probably not. Well, turns out some of the leading companies in industrial 3D printing technology were created here, in GE for example tried to acquire Germany-based SLM Solutions for 1.

Nobody says SAP is not a good example but the problem is that it's only 1 one company in such a huge and wealthy country.

Smaller countries like Sweden or The Netherlands host more successful unicorns than Germany. There are plenty of highly successful technology companies in Germany, just not so many in software.

Sure, it's good for the overall economy, but what good is it to me that I'm surrounded by pharma or mechanical engineering companies if IT is my bread winner?

Pharma and mechanical engineering companies need IT people, too, even if their core business is not IT. Sure, but there is a huge difference in pay, career prospects and respect between being the IT guy at a non tech company and being the IT guy at a company who's main focus is tech.

Funny, I know a lot of people that work in software development in Germany, and most of them seem to be quite happy.

They don't make SV style salaries of course but are well paid. And let's not forget about the difference in cost of living and work-life balance in Germany as compared to the US or London , especially for people that have a family.

Of course if you think that only SV-style software companies are worth working for then Germany isn't the place to be. SAP is a solid business, but have you used their software?

It's atrocious and the developer experience is even worse, ABAP gives me shudders to this day. Not to mention that somehow, whenever a big IT project in government or private industry crashes, SAP seems always to be lurking.

SAP is not "modern" in any sense and certainly not "innovative". Unicorn companies generally are both. Show me one software tool that has as much functionality as SAP and does not suck by your standards.

I doubt for example that SAP will be disrupted by a unicorn with better UI because the upfront cost of building the same functionality that SAP offers and which is not superfluous is horrendously high.

SAP is a behemoth and a success story, but you are missing the point. It's not the business culture that's driving this, it's politics.

Germany simply isn't a competitive environment for entrepreneurship anymore with problems in many areas: schools, taxation, immigration too easy for unqualified workers , legislation.

Politics is in denial and desperate for success stories that would prove things aren't so bad. I thought the point of immigration is to bring in qualified workers to boost the economy.

There are always limitations on how much regulators and law enforcement can do and it always seems obvious in retrospect.

There's always more that could have been done. Companies often get plenty of time to pay back debts and billion dollar companies are given the benefit of the doubt they can pay it back When Financial Times published articles last year questioning Wirecards accounts, Bafin banned shorts on Wirecard temporarily and asked prosecutors to investigate the journalists for market manipulation, in parallel to looking into Wirecard.

That's a bad look when it seems they were right. TheOtherHobbes 10 days ago. FT have been on WC's case from , looking at various associated accounts dated as far back as The article was the killer, with one of Wirecard's financial partners traced to the home of a baffled fisherman in the Philippines.

IMO it's hard not to wonder if there's a story behind the story. But if you owe the bank million dollars ManuelKiessling 11 days ago.

This, by definition, cannot be an explanation, because what's in the DAX and what's not is based solely on the numbers of the listed companies.

It's Neuer Markt all over again. I'd like to read this book on Kindle Don't have a Kindle? Customer reviews. How does Amazon calculate star ratings?

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Ludwig Erhard. Retrieved Creating the Nazi marketplace: commerce and consumption in the Third Reich. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Ross, Corey, , Swett, Pamela E. Houndmills, Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. Ludwig Erhard navigation boxes. First Adenauer cabinet — Second Adenauer cabinet — Third Adenauer cabinet — Fourth Adenauer cabinet — Fifth Adenauer cabinet — First Erhard cabinet — Second Erhard cabinet — Freiburg school of economics.

Franz Böhm Juergen B. Economy Ministers of Germany. Christa Luft Gerhard Pohl. Chancellors of Germany. Otto von Bismarck.

List of chancellors of Germany. Christian Democratic Union. Grand coalition Jamaica coalition Black-red-green coalition. Members of the 1st Bundestag Speaker: Max Reimann.

Speaker: Alfred Loritz. Speaker: Helene Wessel. List of members of the 1st Bundestag. Members of the 2nd Bundestag Speaker: Erich Ollenhauer.

Speaker: Erich Mende. List of members of the 2nd Bundestag. Members of the 3rd Bundestag Speaker: Heinrich Krone. List of members of the 3rd Bundestag.

Members of the 4th Bundestag Members: Gontrum. List of members of the 4th Bundestag. Members of the 5th Bundestag Speaker: Rainer Barzel.

List of members of the 5th Bundestag. Members of the 6th Bundestag Speaker: Herbert Wehner.

Volksaktie

The reasons for Erhard's reluctance are unknown, but it is probable that they stemmed from Erhard's general scepticism about party politics.

However, Erhard was regarded and treated as a long-time CDU member and as the party chairman by almost everyone in Germany at the time, including the vast majority of the CDU itself.

The fact that he was not a member was known only to a very small circle of party leaders at the time, and it did not become known to the public until the year , when the silence was finally broken by Erhard's close advisor Horst Wünsche.

Domestically, a number of progressive reforms were carried out during Erhard's time as chancellor.

In the field of social security, Housing Benefit was introduced in Erhard considered using money to bring about the reunification of Germany.

Despite Washington's reluctance, Erhard envisaged offering Nikita Khrushchev , the leader in Moscow, massive economic aid in exchange for more political liberty in East Germany and eventually for reunification.

The Soviet leader secretly encouraged Erhard to present a realistic proposal for a modus vivendi and officially accepted the Chancellor's invitation to visit Bonn.

However, Khrushchev fell from power in October , and nothing developed. Support for the American role in the Vietnam War proved fatal for Erhard's coalition.

Through his endorsement of the American goal of military victory in Vietnam, Erhard sought closer collaboration with Washington and less with Paris.

Erhard's policy complicated Allied initiatives toward German unification, a dilemma that the United States placed on the back burner as it focused on Southeast Asia.

Erhard failed to understand that American global interests—not Europe's needs—dictated policy in Washington, D. Faced with a dangerous budget deficit in the — recession , Erhard fell from office in part because of concessions that he made during a visit to U.

President Lyndon B. In , while vice president , Johnson had hosted Konrad Adenauer some two years before the German statesman vacated the chancellorship of the German Federal Republic.

In December , less than a month after he had assumed the American presidency upon the assassination of John F. Kennedy , Johnson staged the first ever presidential barbecue in Erhard's honor.

Adenauer and Erhard had also stayed at Johnson's ranch in Gillespie County. Erhard's fall suggested that progress on German unification required a broader approach and a more active foreign policy.

In the s Chancellor Helmut Kohl , however, reverted to Erhard's approach in collaborating with the Reagan administration in its hard-line anti-Soviet policy.

The other ministers who were members of the FDP followed his example — the coalition was broken. On 30 November , Erhard resigned.

Erhard continued his political work by remaining a member of the West German parliament until his death in Bonn from heart failure on 5 May He was buried in Gmund , near the Tegernsee.

Media related to Ludwig Erhard at Wikimedia Commons. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Ludwig Erhard. Retrieved Creating the Nazi marketplace: commerce and consumption in the Third Reich. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Ross, Corey, , Swett, Pamela E. Houndmills, Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. Ludwig Erhard navigation boxes.

First Adenauer cabinet — Second Adenauer cabinet — Third Adenauer cabinet — Fourth Adenauer cabinet — Fifth Adenauer cabinet — First Erhard cabinet — Second Erhard cabinet — Freiburg school of economics.

Franz Böhm Juergen B. Economy Ministers of Germany. Christa Luft Gerhard Pohl. Chancellors of Germany.

Otto von Bismarck. List of chancellors of Germany. Christian Democratic Union. Grand coalition Jamaica coalition Black-red-green coalition.

Members of the 1st Bundestag Speaker: Max Reimann. Speaker: Alfred Loritz. Speaker: Helene Wessel. List of members of the 1st Bundestag.

Members of the 2nd Bundestag Speaker: Erich Ollenhauer. Speaker: Erich Mende. List of members of the 2nd Bundestag.

Members of the 3rd Bundestag Speaker: Heinrich Krone. List of members of the 3rd Bundestag. Members of the 4th Bundestag Members: Gontrum.

List of members of the 4th Bundestag. Just wish the newsletter was more concise with the opp to dig deeper This would result in my stayed subscription to the truncated newsletter, a higher open rate, and actual visits to their website which the newsletter does not drive IMO.

I love long-form newsletters and prefer them to reading content on the web no ads, instant load times, the personal touch of having it delivered in my mailbox, breaking out of the "one more click" dynamic when browsing the web, etc.

I guess it's why people like Ben Thomson or Matt Levine write and distribute them - ultimately, because there's an audience for it.

The former even makes a pretty penny with it, and I'm sure there are others. Your claim about open rates is unsubstantiated because I wouldn't have ever subscribed if it was just a summary and a link to Bloomberg which has a free article limit to boot, if I remember correctly.

As a consumer, I am completely in agreement insofar as the benefits or receiving content via email medium vs. And again assuming it's just as free.

Indeed the open rate claim is unsubstantiated, and we do not know what the metrics look like in any dimension. A quick glance with adblock off shows now ads?

Anecdotally and maybe I am completely alone here I am more inclined to click on a content link or open an email if I believe that there is a high probably of thoroughly reading what's inside.

So eventually, I stopped opening all together, stayed subbed for a few more weeks, but eventually unsubbed altogether when it came time for a monthly inbox pruning.

No we both lost in this scenario, I can admit. Apparently there are multiple ways to go about it : All that said I am surprised at all the downvoting It would be helpful to hear feedback on why reply.

Agreed - there were glaring red flags since as early as The fact that something this obviously fraudulent dragged on for over a decade is nuts.

The problem with shorting a company that you believe is committing fraud is that you cannot do it alone. You need to convince the rest of the market that the company is fraudulent - and that is a very expensive and complex process.

They incentivize investors investigating and raising the alarms for the rest of the market. This company was particularly aggressive in defending themselves publicly, so it didn't happen until their market valuation was high enough to make it worthwhile for the big shorts to come in and crush it.

Don't forget their auditors who have seen nothing wrong for ten years. Mention their name. I think you are over-estimating what an auditor is expected to do.

Auditor's, to me, seem to be there to make sure you're compliant with the law or regulation that they are auditing for.

In these audits, the company gathers and presents all of the data that the auditors will see. The auditors will do interviews with people, but the company also somewhat picks who will get interviewed.

Remember that auditors are paid for by the company they are auditing. They are motivated to do the minimum required to pass the given regulation.

They aren't there for true oversight, they are there to make sure all the checkboxes are checked. Yes, but the understanding is that the auditor gives approval of your "books" and companies should not be able to function for years while doing fraudulent things.

This is why there is audit in the first place. It is mandatory and they should be held accountable for it. EY did catch them eventually.

I'm guessing the courts will be doing a review of the audits that EY did over the years. It's likely a matter of how deceptive Wirecard was to their auditors.

In theory they could provide a qualified opinion which basically says: this company is screwed or withdraw from the audit which will signal the same thing.

MrBuddyCasino 11 days ago. At least BaFin boss Felix Hufeld admitted they messed up and that the whole thing was the biggest debacle he ever witnessed.

This is rare, and I find it respectable. But yeah, how they missed that is hard to comprehend.

Look at the German DAX and what is in there. That is explanation enough. Heavy industry, consumer goods, banks, insurances. Everyone, especially politics, wanted Wirecard to succeed: the only actually somewhat innovative IT company in the DAX.

As one person in Germany explained to me - there is no corruption at the low level - it is not worth it for the policeman to lose a nice salary and a pension for a few hundred euros bribe.

So you will get a speeding ticket everytime and Germany is known for that sort of 'solidity'. On the higher end, however, the stakes and balances are different - high pay is frowned upon and owners of Aldi supermarkets etc are known for their frugality and driving second hand cars.

So if one wants to make big money - it needs to be under the radar, possibly illegal and bribes for big infra projects are common.

I'd would rather say: a Incompetence instead of curruption. Plus b trust culture as entry-vector.

Teachers unions fight tooth and nail to keep finance and business acumen out of the curriculum. This itself being rooted in culture will have to bear fruit in some way or another.

Germany has the lowest share of people invested in equities of all industrialized nations. So Markus Braun, claiming everything is fine until the very last minute seemed plausible.

Even after the news broke on Thursday it seemed plausible for many, that the wrong doing was on the side of some Philippinian actors only.

The "Volksaktie", today known as Telekom yes, this Telekom, for the US folks , wiped out a lot of people's savings and they remembered this.

Germany's economic model in the late 19th century, one copied by East Asia, was to force savings into banks, and then give out loans at heavily subsidised rates to well-connected industrialists.

This model has never stopped. Equity markets have never really existed because they are competition with the banking system.

And the banks are heavily supported by or owned government. They have always paid a rate significantly under market. Germans have the same median net wealth as Greeks and the highest level of wealth inequality in the world bar China.

This is part of the system. If savers take their money out of banks, it is over and btw, most German banks are functionally insolvent Savers get utterly screwed, the wealthy are eating their lunch.

I disagree. It only declined thereafter even throughout the latest, longest bull-run in history. But yes, events like the dot-com bubble or now Wirecard just strenghten the prejudice Germans have toward the whole topic.

Fjolsvith 11 days ago. Well, after that pustular bubble burst they've got rotten egg on their faces.

I didn't say EY was alone. It is also relevant that a good chunk of the ultra-rich in Germany came to prominence with govt assistance that varies from slave labour to heavily subsidised loans.

Aldi is a pretty poor example because they are an example of a company that actively disrupted German corporate life.

So being understated is a north European characteristic but that isn't why German billionaires behave that way they are often extremely overstated in private.

They have no public profile because the way they made their money is usually horrific Oetker family, Quandts, etc. Also, the amount of corruption in Germany is huge.

The most similar country is probably China. The state is run by and for billionaires. There is almost no oversight of this. The purpose of the German economy is to steal from consumers: low wages, forced savings, essentially free loans from state-owned banks to well connected companies, very weak unions.

Not as bad as China, stuff like hukou is Germany and weak unions? Lol, I get they're not as solid as French unions where bossnappings and violent riots are the norm not the exception, but still.

We have legally protected unions and employee councils "Betriebsrat" , the US and many other countries in the world do not have these at all.

I'm curious if you have more insight on this? Barrin92 11 days ago. I'm German and I honestly have the opposite feeling. I participated in "startup culture" for a few years and I want to never touch it again.

I think in the German industry itself there is no real fear of staleness because our systems of innovation generally work differently, on occassion there is a media hype cycle about "rising economy X" displacing everyone, but that has been going on since the 80s when the UK's financialisation was everyone's favourite model.

I'm glad we didn't follow on that front There is a profound lack of developers to start. I was in a German startup and it was awesome.

Product didn't pan out for the mass market medical devices but the few devices we build by hand are now used for studies in clinics.

So it wasn't at all wasted. Software sucks though because I wrote it shortly after finishing my studies with negligible experience. But it works at least.

I got support from another developer at some point into the project, but finding qualified people was basically impossible.

Still, developers are probably mostly active in traditional industries. Manufacturing needs software experts for example, the product isn't necessarily software itself.

There are advantages and disadvantages to that. There are grants for some business ideas, but it is mostly older established folk that know the details of successfully getting capital.

In general, I think there is a huge fear of being "left behind digitally". Not so much in the industry itself than in politics or on a personal social level.

The demographics responsible for implementing digital innovations often speak english and just use international solutions.

There is little "local patriotism" in software. Perhaps there is also a strong idealism which lets people get involved in open source instead of creating business models and market digital services.

Again, advantages and disadvantages. It was safe, the software "architecture" was all over the place though.

ChuckNorris89 11 days ago. I don't think so. Judging by the low salaries most companies are offering in parallel with the huge number of devs on reddit from outside of the EU wanting to move to Germany it doesn't look like there's a shortage of developers, quite the contrary.

If there was a shortage, pretty shore we'd see higher salaries being offered. Or they don't want to pay more than that so they don't find developers.

Maybe developers from Germany move to other countries as well. Germany recruit and attracts a lot from Eastern Europe, specifically Romania.

This definitely helps keep salaries lower reply. ChrisMarshallNY 11 days ago. I have worked with Romanian software developers, in the past.

Basically, I was quite impressed with their brilliance and almost insane work ethic. The ones I worked with were kind of unorganized, but that was a small sample.

Romania barely has k devs in total, I doubt they move the needle that much. Grollicus 11 days ago. I think there's a cultural difference.

Developers don't seem to be trusted as much here, which means software development isn't that much of a difficult job which would merit higher pay.

The "meat" of the work - architecture, design etc. These roles are paid comparably better, but if you lump all the web devs and people implementing business logic into the same category you'll get lower wages on average.

That might indeed be true, but it can probably be detrimental to the software industry as a whole. I think at least basic coding experience is needed to plan architecture and design maintainable software to start with.

Especially for getting experience for the viability of available solutions. I have seen more software projects fail because of over-engineering for alleged maintainability, extensibility and a too generic design.

Some would say that violates KISS. Many have shifted to more iterative development, which doesn't exclude the need for a solid architecture and extendable software, but it can improve time to an MVP.

Quality can suffer, but you also gain experience. Business logic can be as complex as you want. In fact one of the highest paid field resolves around optimizations in this particular field.

SAP is an example here but there are others. Still, developers aren't payed that badly to be honest and you have options to reduce your workload, so that you don't end up with 60h work weeks or regular crunch.

Projects might take as long as some unrelated airports in some setups I guess. If you code in a quiet smaller city, you can kiss 6 figures goodbye of course, but in many cases you are the best paid person in the room.

What kind of medical devices did you build? Sorry, I am not available for hire right now. I have some experience with regulated software for medical devices, but any generic developer could learn the regulatory requirements with a little effort.

The tools to meet regulatory compliance are general tools developers employ in most projects already. The important part is that the development process is formally defined.

The device I worked on was classified as IIa. There was a focus on a thorough risk analysis and we ensured mechanism were in place to shut down the device in any case of emergency.

I don't want to say what kind of device it was, it had to do with higher frequency ultrasonic sensory. We are starting to develop a medical device, so if you are interested please provide your contact information.

Pyramus 11 days ago. German here with startup experience abroad. No there isn't - and it baffles and worries me to the same extent. Many Germans think of innovation as incremental, and don't realise how much Germany is missing out in terms of disruptive innovation.

Everyone wants to be like the SV hipsters, no one can because the higher-ups are still mentally and literally stuck in fax times, there is almost no venture capital and the venture capital that is here gets invested into stuff like Rocket Internet whose "business model" is to copycat US ideas , banks across the EU won't dish out dumb money because unlike the US we have public funded pension systems and not capital-based ones and we have strict loan regulations Basel framework.

This of course clashes with the US way of life that from the bottom to the top embodies "fail fast", and the youth yearns for change but as explained above that's hard to do.

Who says the US doesn't follow the Basel framework? There is a lot of VC but there aren't many good startups - because the best people are heading straight for SV instead of dealing with a second-rate environment and a second-rate in IT labor force.

What gets written up in, say, Gründerszene are companies like the one that would tell you where to get your car repaired.

I don't know where that number comes from, but I'll assume it's the sum of investments and not the sum of capital available for investment since the latter is a bit hard to determine.

There are bigger single venture firms a few blocks from my house in Palo Alto. For example I walk past Accel every day to get a coffee.

That's not the same as the available venture capital. If there are no good investments to be made, the potential venture capital simply isn't all invested.

So the point that lack of VC is a problem is wrong, it's the attractive startups that are missing. It's the same in Austria - I invested in 2 startups, got a little burned and have since not invested for lack of good opportunities.

I've also been asked a few times by a larger German company for my opinion on potential investments, so I know they're looking and can't find anything worthwhile.

Funding is not the problem! And the "market size" is only indicative of the too few good startups, not of the potentially available capital.

The legislation is a barrier, the physical distance too. May I also additionally ask how on Earth a 50k salary for a software engineer is at all justified?

After paying taxes and rent, it seems to me there is not much money left over for saving or lifestyle spending? It seems like an unfair situation reply.

Why is it unfair? No-one is forcing anyone to accept development work for 50k per year, yet there are plenty of people happy to do it.

Define plenty? It seems to me the other commenters have offered counter points to you. Tomte 11 days ago. And what do you think do houses cost in Germany, compared to "bigger cities" in America?

I know plenty of people in that income range myself who do own houses or apartments in some cases and wouldn't think of forgoing their summer vacation in Menorca or Ibiza.

No matter how much HNers love to pile on, 50k Euros is a respectable income in most parts of Germany.

The idea that all software engineering is in Stuttgart, Munich or Berlin is laughable. We have lots and lots of family companies of the so-called "Mittelstand" strewn across the province but West Germany primarily.

Some of those are hidden champions. In towns and regions few Americans will ever have heard of. I think collective action for higher wages is proper here.

Also, if you can't find software engineers at that price, you just close the office and move it to Poland or so. Hence fewer employers remain.

And yet, people manage to buy houses and fly on vacations on that income. Trust me, in Germany with that income you can either buy an apartment not a house, at least not in a place where you will find a software developer job nearby or fly on vacations, but not both So thats not true, at least not if you are living in a smaller city.

And for places like Berlin or Munich, 50k a year would be ridicoulously low.

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